“Wyrd biõ ful ãræd.”

Saturday, September 13, 2014

Yes, there is such a thing as shotgun shells with plastic slugs or buck shot loads.

Pursuant to a couple of comments in a past post,  there are shotgun shells with non-lethal loads. Personally, I don't see a lot of use for them, because if I'm shooting a shotgun at someone I don't want to bruise them, I want to disable or kill them.



However, there was a time when I thought these were a good answer to the bear problem here.  I don't want to hurt the bears, but I want them to go on back into the woods.  My current thinking, however, is that I might just make them angry, and a bear can run a whole lot faster than I can at my age.  So I have eschewed firing rubber at bears. I do shoot over their heads with a 12 gauge, from a safe distance.  But if that doesn't help, I am now forced to just wait for them to amble off.  The DNR doesn't come trap them anymore, no money in the budget.
(They used to trap them in a big drum thing on a trailer, that didn't injure the bears at all. Then they hauled them off to Tennessee and let them go.)

Personally,  I think it would be unintelligent to shoot an intruder with rubber shot or slugs. Yes, it probably hurts. But what holds true for the bear, holds true for the miscreant.

Suppose somebody was trying to break in here, and I shot him with rubber slugs. If he was capable of getting up thereafter, he might shoot me with something less "humane."

Since I regard any intruder on my property as armed and dangerous, I am not overly concerned about their well being. They put themselves in that position by making a conscious decision to act in an unlawful and threatening manner.


I think the little blurb on the bottom of this shell package is asinine.  However, they are just pimping their product. I suppose it might work with people who don't have the intestinal fortitude to defend themselves and are looking for a way to stave off danger and beat the flower drums at the same time.

Good luck to them if they have to use these things for real. I'll put my faith in double ought buckshot.




When the Goblins come, I want lead down range! There's a place for number 8!


27 comments:

  1. The last time I went to buy 12 gauge shells, the guy behind the counter tried to sell me something similar to what you show here. I told him that if someone had just kicked in my door and was headed toward me with murder in his eye, I didn't want to just tick him off. I wanted to stop him. They guy smiled and handed me a box of double ought buck.

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    1. Maybe he thought because you were a woman you couldn't handle a full load out of a shotgun. Not so. My wife is not a large woman but she can handle a 12 gauge (though she much prefers her 20, I admit.)

      I have a lot of slugs, but I don't really know why. I think largely because they were on sale. I do have a slug gun, but you can shoot the right kind of slugs out of smooth bore. Double ought buck has been getting the job done for a long, long time. I trust it.

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  2. Hey Harry,


    (captaincrunch)

    the last time I was at the range, a friend of mine took his Rem. 870 and he attached a EO Tech holographic sight (like the one of my AR) to his 870 and we shot skeet with it.
    The EO Tech worked out really, really well for skeet shooting. It was like playing a video game almost, lining up the crosshairs with the clay's we were shooting at.

    I'm not much of a shot gunner, I do own a 12 guage pump with double ought buck, but I prefer a rifle.
    I think sometime in the future I would like to get an automatic shotgun, like a Rem. 1100 or that fancy $1100 Baretta automatic. If I went that route, call me a call me a heretic, but I would run one of those sights on it. I can still 'shoot from the hip' and spray all over the place, or I can make well placed shots if I chose to use that sight.

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    1. You'll have to save up a lot of coin to buy one of those autos. I can't see any objection to putting a sight on the shotgun if that's what you want to do. Shotguns don't have much range on them but I guess if you used some kind of choke and kept a really tight pattern it might pan out.

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  3. Harry, my friend, call me crazy but if i can't get to any of our weapons soon enough - i will just throw .22's at the intruder - be it bear or human!!!! yep, i am pretty sure that throwing them will work for quite a while and we got a lot!!! much love to you and yours. pic of the new weapon coming tomorrow - i just have to do my hair first - bahahahahaha!!!!!

    your friend,
    kymber

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    1. Kymber, I'm looking forward very much to seeing the new addition to your Table of Equipment. You know me, I'm a lot more reticent about hurting animals than most folks, I guess it's another of those quirks that make me "eccentric." You are lucky to have plenty of .22LR, down here that's a hard item to acquire. 9mm is better now though. A friend was telling me that the same ammo I am buying for under $13.00 a box is listed at more than $20.00 a box where he is!

      You're up late, aren't you? It's almost 1:30 in the morning. Didn't know you were a night person.

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    2. Harry - you just wait until i do my hair tomorrow and a pic will be coming! you will love it and think it is really "girly" because it really is! and ya, sometimes you just gotta throw ammo at the intruder, no? maybe it's a cape breton thing?

      ya. i keep weird hours...kind of like you. i have been especially aware of these sun showers that we were supposed to see here....for the past 3 nights....and nada. all 3 nights - very clear skies. so why didn't we see anything...i dunno buddy!

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    3. Kymber, I went out to look for any sign of the lights from the solar storm and saw nothing. But we got fog in here as soon as it got dark, or low clouds, so I had little hope. If you didn't see any way up there, then I guess it didn't get down here for sure.

      I like girly girls, so I am sure I will like your new acquisition.

      We need to get some sleep, eh? See I speak Canadian!

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    4. Hey Kymber,

      (captaincrunch)

      They let you guys have ammo up there in 'New Texas" (Nova Scotia)

      Down here in Texas if we can't get to our guns quick enough we don't throw .22 at them. We throw "Cow Patties' (cow crap) you know 'bullshit' Cow crap is well a big round pizza size pile of dung that's actually pretty heavy (compacted grass)
      If you and your hubby ever come down here to 'thaw out' There's neighbor about 600 yards from my house that has some acreage with at least 20 head of Longhorn cattle and I'm sure he has a lot of crap so we can go over there and I can show you how we throw 'cow patties' Cow patties make great emergency fuel for fires, only problem is they smell kinda funny when they burn.

      Word to the wise, never through a wet (fresh cow pattie) stick to the dry ones, no bullshit (on pun intended)

      Really, I have a neighbor (600 yards away that has at least a 20 acre spread with a bunch of full grown Longhorns. I also have a old (abandoned) oil well about 200 yards from my house.

      Welcome to Texas.

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    5. Dear captain - yep, as crazy as it sounds they really do let us have ammo up here. i don't have any cows nearby so no getting cow patties...however, i do have 3 big fat cats and if an intruder ever comes by, he gets hit with those first. then i start chucking the .22s at him until i can get to my new rifle. then i shoot him in the head. but i think chucking one cat at a time at him will pretty much take care of needing to fire. i could be wrong, tho - bahahahahah! love you captain!

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    6. dear harry - bahahahah! yer pretty good at that canadian speak buddy! love ya!

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    7. I wonder why you folks can get .22LR and we can't. Canada doesn't produce any 22LR does it? I mean, wouldn't you be getting it from the U.S.? It seems like some people have no trouble getting the ammo and others can't get it for love or money. No rhyme or reason to it.

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  4. My pappy always taught me not to point a gun at anything you wouldn't be willing to kill. They didn't have rubber shot in his day. Pappy was a WW II vet; I listened.

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    1. It makes sense to me. The last thing on earth I want to do is get shot, stabbed, or beaten up. The second last thing is to hurt someone else. But priorities are priorities. There's the slightest chance that some hiker could get lost and come up here, and I once had a crazy man come up the trail who thought he lived in my house. So I have to be really careful about "target verification." My thought is that with all the security devices in place up here, no one is going to surprise me. Most erroneous shootings occur when someone is surprised. So, if I have to shoot, I want to be effective. Rubber bullets aren't up to speed.

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  5. Great post, Harry. We always hate having to kill any varmints and avoid it unless absolutely necessary (the rats raiding the chicken coop really had to go though). One of our biggest problems is dogs from the trailer park down the road. Folks think because they're out of town limits that they can let their dogs run free. Really, really, don't want to hurt anyone's pet, but neither can we allow them to kill our livestock for fun. All the new fencing Dan put up this summer has really helped with that.

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    1. That's why I like to live where there aren't any people. I can get along with bears, because I understand their motivations. But people?

      Rubber buckshot might have applications for protecting your stock, or it might be one of those cases where you just have to do what you have to do , unpleasant as it may be. Maybe it would be something to try and if it worked it could save you from having to kill the dogs. Even I wouldn't condemn you for it if you had to though, that's a problem people bring on themselves when they don't keep their animals under control . It's a shame the dogs have to pay for it, because they are just being dogs, but stock killing is heinous. Maybe that fencing falls under the category of "good fences make good neighbors."

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    2. Just please don't lay out poison hotdogs for those dogs. Its a miserable, painful death.

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    3. Surely nobody would do that. There's almost always a way to avert having to kill someone's dogs. I would only say that if they are killing your sheep, or goats, or in one case I know of, cattle, you might have to shoot them. If their owners are low rent and won't pen them up. Poison is outside the pale. I don't care what the wolf haters up in the Redoubt say about it.

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  6. I suppose the plastic shot might be useful if you had a less than conscientious neighbor's dog harassing your live stock. Mostly designed as "non lethal" to control rioters of the two legged sort. Big sales these days to South American and other third world nations whose men in black have discovered that at close range it can be quite lethal and effective at making the extermination of opposition look like an accident.

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    1. I never thought of the dog issue until you and Leigh brought it up. The only dogs who find their way here are half dead and needing a home, so they have never represented a threat.

      I saw some pictures on the internet of people who had been shot up close with rubber bullets from riot control guns. Those will do a number on you, no question.

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  7. Hey Harry,

    Y'all stay up way to late here!

    Sure do love my 870 magnum, those 3 in. Shells come in handy for the goose hunt. Turkey too. Not so great for home defense...barrel is to long but I suppose in a pinch it will do. Have you ever seen those flechette rounds these used in Nam? --Troy

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    1. Troy, I have some of those in my store room, I think. I know I bought two cases of military production overrun in the late 80's. One was definitely buck shot but the other , I believe was flachettes. I never fired any of either of them as they were in sealed cardboard cases shrink wrapped in plastic.

      I've got a big old long barreled 870. I don't think I've fired it. I used to work at a gun store on weekends, and after turkey season here you could have your pick of virtually new turkey guns for peanuts.

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  8. Do not currently have any rubber shotgun loads.

    The idea is something like the other various less lethal options- that awkward area between a fist fight and a ballistic situation.

    Personally I can see the benefit for say a person who is really drunk or mentally ill. or maybe if I was worried about a riot.

    For the bears I would leave the shotgun with 1 empty in the tube and command load a single round of rubber buckshot. The tube would be standard buck.

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    1. I have had a mentally ill type show up here. When he did, I was sitting down by the entrance to the Jeep trail, by a little fire I built. All I had was a British Lee Enfield Mk. III. It took me about 20 seconds of talking to this guy to figure out he was crazy as a loon. Eventually I had to get the dogs to convince him to leave, he got agitated when I wouldn't let him in the house, but not violent.

      Never had a drunk come up here I don't think.

      I've only had one incident where a bear tried to get in the house, and that was because the dogs were fighting with him and they backed him into the door way on the porch.

      I guess rubber bullets might be ok in either situation if you were far enough away. Trouble is, they don't have a lot of range on them, and I am pretty sure a pissed off bear could run me down before I could flee back into the house if I fired at him when he was close enough for it to be effective.

      I don't know though. That's all conjecture. I see your point about loading one rubber round. I'd be really sad if I had to kill a bear. Then too, what would I do with a 400 pound bear body? It's illegal to shoot them, so I couldn't rent a back hoe. The ground here is hellish to dig in, all flinty and full of roots. My wife says I overthink things. Maybe I do.

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    2. Break out the knives and bone saw. Other than having to explain imminent threat to a conservation officer shouldn't be to tough of a situation.

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  9. Oh please! you can't fool me! Since they just suspended a football player for using a switch to discipline his child, your just looking for an alternative, more scientific method of child discipline.

    No more switches or spankings! It's the rubber bullet.

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    1. I saw that stuff. What is the world coming to? My dad used a switch on me plenty of times, not because he was abusing me but because I broke some of his rules. I didn't feel a lot of affection for the old guy but I knew that he had my best interests at heart in his fundamentalist Southern Baptist way.

      I watched that show "British Blackout" and one of the families had a kid who was about eight. When his dad would tell him what to do, he'd say "f**k off!" or something of that nature. You would only have pulled that with my old man once. Maybe we are going that way ourselves. I can't believe everybody in England lets their kids tell them to F off though.

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