Truth.

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within."

Ariel Durant

Wednesday, June 7, 2017

When the day comes that it's not business as usual anymore. A few considerations.

I imagine most people who come here already have most of this under control.  But given the course of events, it can't hurt to go over it. I go over my plans constantly, looking for chinks and gaps.  There are people who believe no really dramatic disruptions can occur in this day and age. Then there are people who accept that it's no different now than it has been in the past, and that the unforeseen can happen in a flash. It might be weather , such as Katrina. It might be "the big one" if you live out on the Left Coast.  It might be the bright light from North Korea or Tehran, or just some obscure group of Islamic thugs who got their hands on one of the hundreds of missing Russian nuclear weapons. "Survivalist fantasies" generally have some basis in fact, though some are more probable than others.

Everybody knows the main issues.  You have to have a place to live, you have to be safe from attack, you have to have resources, and you have to be able to support yourself logistically.

Whether you plan to stay at home, or to bug out, or plan for both, you do need to plan. There are more books than I can count on "Bugging In" or "Bugging Out."  Most of the survival magazines are replete with $100,000 purpose built bug out vehicles, and some people have "retreats" to flee to, ranging from cabins in remote areas to luxurious accommodations in old missile silos.  Some people, for whatever reason, are pretty much anchored. They may already live in their retreat. They may have health or financial issues that prevent them from bugging out. Whatever the case, prior planning prevents poor performance.



If you are staying home, then you need to have some food on hand. I doubt the "three days" the government hawks is enough. It wasn't during Hurricane Katrina. You need water. You can't have too much of it. I have a well, and two streams I can access. But I still keep about 300 gallons of water on hand for ready access. If you live anywhere like a city, where your water is dependent on the city water system, don't count on that. If something serious happens, the people who run it won't be going to work, even if the system itself is intact.



I once talked with a doctor who was a survivalist. He lived in a gated community in Atlanta's outskirts. Some of his cronies had formed a group to protect that community if things deteriorated to the point that was necessary. These guys had plenty of money, but they weren't thinking things through. I asked him what he'd do if the water went out.  Well, he said, they had a decorative pond on the property. That's nice, but it turns out the pond was filled by pumps from the city water system. How were they going to maintain sanitation. If people started burying their waste near the pond, how long would it be potable? They hadn't given any  thought to that.  Basically, these fellows had watched a few episodes of survival shows on television, but hadn't done their homework in terms of a day to day plan. It was fun buying guns and big shipments of long term storage food, but who wants to think about flushing the toilet?  The old saw that you can go a while without food, but not long without water is true.





Security is not a joke.  Consider how lawless our society is now.  Even up here, we have burglaries, robbery,  and other crimes against people and property.  The closer you get to a big city, the worse it becomes. In a truly serious event, there won't be any police, and if there are, you might be better off avoiding them altogether. I think about what happened in New Orleans during the Hurricane.  If you haven't been filled in on that, then the book "The Great New Orleans Gun Grab" is  the best source of information on the topic I know of. Looting, gang violence, and mob disorder got completely out of hand there. So did the local police and those who were imported later on,





This kind of random violence can happen anywhere. And frequently does. We have whole segments of our society that look forward to any excuse for rioting , as a chance for a free shopping spree and an opportunity to hurt people they don't like , with impunity.  Remember Baltimore:





warning: language content in video below:








I know after Katrina a federal law was passed to prevent blanket confiscation of personal weapons in a catastrophe. I wouldn't rely too heavily on it in real life. I do believe that anyone who is unarmed in times of disorder, whatever the nature of that disorder may be, is going to be in  real trouble. Especially if they have something violent people want.  The type of things individuals or groups specifically look for?  Food, weapons, women, drugs, (legal and otherwise), vehicles, gasoline,  Sometimes they just kill people for the fun of it.



You need a safe place to live, and a way to defend yourself and your family.  The particulars of that depend on your individual situation.  Security is not a one size fits all topic of conversation.



It would be nice to know what's going on.  In the short term, local television may stay up, but if the power goes out, you may need a radio.  You can buy a cheap AM/FM radio for five bucks at your local humane society thrift shop.  You can get a good shortwave radio from Cranes or a similar outfit for under $50.00.  Bell used to make a combination shortwave/am/fm set for under ten dollars. It wasn't fancy but it worked. If you have batteries and a radio you should be able to get some idea of what's going on in the wider world.

It would be nice to have a land line.  They don't always work but they are worlds more survivable in a crisis than cell phones. Everybody has a cell phone, everybody tries to use it in moments of stress, and the system can't handle it. A land line is powered by the line itself, provided you don't buy a phone that needs electricity to work. The cost of a modest, line powered phone that doesn't need an ac adapter  is about $2.00 or less at my local thrift shop.


The phone above needs AC power.  If your power goes out, it won't work unless you have a serious battery backup on it.


This phone will work if there is no electricity in your house.  It will work as long as the telephone system itself is functioning in your area.




If you need medicine, you had better have some extra in the bathroom medicine cabinet. Most doctors will only write prescriptions for a max of 90 days.  As far as I know, foreign pharmacies still want a prescription, so buying outside the country may be cheaper but won't help you accumulate medicine. Over the counter stuff is no problem, but I have three prescriptions and my wife has five. That's 8 medicines we have to worry about running out of. My current doctor gives us one prescription for 90 days, and one refill. Then we have to go in and see him to get the next prescription written. I haven't found a solution for this. At best , we have medicine for 90 days. At worst, if we are near the end of the cycle, we may have very little on hand.  You could, possibly, go in a month or so after you fill number one, and pick up the refill. But that's a stop gap solution at best.

If you google "survival medicine" you get hundreds of hits. Most of them deal with antibiotics. If anybody comes across an informative source on this particular issue, I'd like to hear about it.

I don't want this post to get too long, and start boring people. So I'll leave this topic here, but I'm going to pick up other issues in subsequent posts. If you have thoughts about this, please don't hesitate to share them. Nobody is so much the duty expert that  they don't need to look at other ideas in the area of survival planning. Least of all, me.


One America News: Liz Wheeler







Cartoons that are still relevant:





Thought for the Day:


The Religion of Peace.







43 comments:

  1. I have several prescriptions also that are given out same as yours. I have wondered the same things, having enough on hand when THSHTF. Some of mine require refrigeration, and can only last a few weeks without. While we could survive a while without, the consequences could be damaging long term. I see no solution either

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    1. One of the earliest post apocalyptic fiction books was "Alas, Babylon". It's still a classic today.

      In that book, people with any kind of serious medical problems simply died when their medications ran out. Diabetics were the first to go, because the small town in Florida where the story takes place lost power immediately, and the refrigeration went out. That killed off the diabetics ASAP.

      The other point about medications in the story was that there are large numbers of people in the U.S. who have to take medications for behavioral issues and psychological problems. When they ran out of medications in the story, hideous things began to happen as they ran a muck. There doesn't seem to be any solution to either problem. When the drug store closes down, those of us with medical problems will be in trouble.

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  2. "One Second After" cover all this as well plus the .22 rim fire issue and how it became a form money when it became scarce.

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    1. Yes, that's a pretty good book. I haven't read his two sequels. I know CC read at least the second one and did. I looked at buying the books but even as digital copies they were pretty expensive. I can look at having the library get them for me though. Thanks for reminding me.

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  3. Harry - you hit this one out of the park, buddy! i came in from outside planting just to quickly check jam's email to see if he had anything from work that needed to be taken care of, saw that you had a new post and then sat and read it twice! i have sooo much to comment on - i think this is your best post to date and i can't wait for you to continue it! i'll be back in a bit to do a proper comment!

    awesome post Harry, awesome! sending much love,
    your friend'
    kymber

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    1. Kymber, I'll be looking forward to your comments. I know you and J have been at this a long time, and your set up is similar to mine in a lot of respects. Don't hesitate to address issues I didn't get to today, either.

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    2. Harry - i had to open notepad to keep track of my comments! so here goes:

      we believe in going over our preps ideas, bug-out/bug-in ideas all of the time. and we read certain blogs, like yours, to get ideas that we may not have thought of...i can't even begin to tell you how much we have learned from blogs like yours and internet friends like W who never comments on our blog - we just communicate through email. through other bloggers and email friends - we have learned much and it is well appreciated. we have made so many mistakes - but some mistakes we completely avoided based on learning from others.

      as you say, everyone has to look at their own particular situation and figure out what is best for them and how to best be ready for whatever might be coming at us. jam and i don't prepare for tornadoes but forest fires are a big deal!

      as for medical advice, i have nothing to offer other than stock up on crazy glue, israeli bandages and every form of bandaid, splint, gauze, etc. that you can find. as for prescription medicines, neither of us are on any but there are medicinal herbs that can help with a pile of things and i grow a pile of them and know how to use them if the time comes. every single ailment and disease in the past was taken care of using medicinal herbs...it's only our modern ailments and diseases (think the past 100+yrs) that "recquire" modern medicine.

      water, of course, is the biggee. and i just don't have any advice for people living in apartment buildings in cities - your tub is only so big and that water is going to run out! forget flushing the toilet when the only water you have is in the tub. we are incredibly fortunate, as you are, with several sources of water.

      2nd part coming

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    3. the crime here on our island is an oddball kind of crime. jambaloney got sucker-punched our first year here, a guy who lives 2km up the road killed his mother, there's a ton of fentynol and meth addicts in our only city (1 and a half hours away), and then we get the local idiot kids who sometimes break into summer cottages to steal alcohol. it's all very strange but none of it worries us at all.

      we've got every weapon we need, even the pink cammo one i sent you a picture of. we also have, like, maybe 4 police on the entire island???

      our minorities here on the island are just that - very few and far between. and amazingly well-received. and amazingly well-integrated or at least that's how they seem.

      we agree that in times of disorder and chaos - one MUST be armed. and we are armed legally. we don't mind if our government makes us license our weapons...there is absolutely no government agency in canada who is ever going to come this far out into the boonies to "grab our guns"! or food. or anything else.

      one thing i would mention in this gawd-awful long comment is - guerrilla gardening. we've been doing it on all of our islands in the river. plant seeds where no one is looking and just let them grow. and re-seed and grow. who knows when you might need that food?

      all in all - i loved this post. these kinds of posts make me and jam, and a bunch of other people think. and think hard and think for real.


      i really enjoy these kinds of posts of yours and so does jam. my Uncle Gerald used to say that we were thinkers, big thinkers, but better than that, we were do'ers. we like to think that the reason why we feel so secure is that we paid attention to the ones who came before us and shared their knowledge. we learned about tire gardening from kurt saxon of all people. we don't care about your political/religious/mental leanings...if someone has something we can learn from - we jump on it and hang on like a chihuahua! we don't let go.

      i guess that's one of the reasons we've been hanging out with you for so long.! please keep these posts coming. there are new people coming to your blog every day. and some of us are very familiar with the acronyms and all of that - but some people are brand new to prepping/survivalism. and they need direction. be the teacher that you are. and know how much we appreciate all that you have taught us...and all that we will continue to learn from you!

      sending so much love your way. you know how much jam and i appreciate your friendship over these years. you mean a lot to us Harry!

      your friend,
      kymber

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    4. Kymber, I'm going to "guest post" your comment. It's too good to just leave in the comment section because lots of people don't read the comments. I appreciate your going to the trouble to write it. Your blog is one of those I've been reading the longest, all the way back to the old "Hermit" blog. Most of the people we both enjoyed reading back then seem to have vanished.

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  4. Some medication supplies can be built up over time if you mailorder company (or maybe even with your local pharmacy)by refilling your 90 day prescriptions a week or two early. Of course, this cannot be done with controlled substances, such as the Vyvanse you had in your picture. The doctors I worked for were under a tight leash to only give a one month written prescription for these, which script had to be picked up at the office (if we mailed it and was not received, they wouldn't write another Rx for another 30 days). However, for things like blood pressure, heart, and diabetic meds, the rules are not quite so strict.

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    1. Chipmunk, That's a generic picture off the internet, but our eight medications all require prescriptions. I can probably refill my second prescription a little early, but our pharmacies here are very touchy about it.

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    2. I take asthma inhalers and thyroid meds. Get them online without script. Since you get your meds for very low copayments, I would go online a get year's worth and then keep up going with local pharmacy after that. You maybe couldn't get all your meds that way, but most anyway. Also, don't be afraid to hit your doc up for samples.

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    3. I will check the email. I am inferring you don't want me to post your source, which is perfectly ok. That's why I have the public email address.

      My new doctor is a strange sort of guy. I've been taking my blood pressure medicine for 18 years, but he wouldn't give me a new prescription until he had my lab work back from his own office. Even though they use LabCorp, the same outfit my old doctor used, and he had my medical records from the old doctor, it was still no go. The other weird thing is he has signs all over his office, in every examination room and in the waiting room, saying he does not prescribe pain medicine of any kind. This may be related to the fact that in the neighboring county, where he also has an office, the DEA came and arrested the hospital administrator, six doctors, and seven other people for being involved in an opiate drug ring. One of the doctors who was hauled off to jail was the one who took care of my two kids when they were little.

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    4. trying to reply, computer acting up.
      the arrests may be 'fake'. revenge, or to make the public think things are under control, , et cetera.
      know a postman who says every week he delivers several packages of 3 month supply pain meds to one address. all packages from different points of origin.
      asked if 'authorities' know, he shrugged and said yes, but they do nothing.
      that is why i suspect 'news' concerning drugs.
      laws make it difficult for those in pain to get what they need but illegitimate users can always find what they want.

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    5. I don't think so in this case. As soon as they got one of them arrested, he squealed on the next one, who squealed on the next one.... also they were linked to one of the Mexican cartels, and that's what got the feds on them.

      So far I have been able to avoid taking any pain medicine unless it's OTC. I'm afraid of them. My brother hurt his back and the doctor gave him some of those opiate things, I told him to flush them down the john and just tough it out. He got by on Tylenol. I was really aggravated that the doctor would give him those, but it is a college town in Oregon, after all. My doctor does't prescribe those pills no matter what, I think more because he doesn't want hassles from the feds than any concern about his patients.

      I know what you mean about people who are legitimately suffering. If you are terminal, then why not let the person have what they need? It's not like they are going to suffer the effects of addiction.

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  5. Well, Harry, I told you where to go for overseas prescription meds. You don't need script. Wackos will be taken out pretty quick, don't you think? At least around here. We have a well and generator hooked to pump and also a creek half mile away and a Berkey unit with extra filters. Kymber had a post a couple of years ago on how to make water purifiers from 5 gal buckets and Berkey filter units. (thanks Kymber). You all want to up your chances of survival? Now would be a good time to get in shape and loose the extra flab and build muscle. Lay off the junk food and soda. Get lean and mean and stay alert and get in your range time.

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    1. tewshooz - thanks for that! we use our berkey filters every day/clean them regularly and have over the past several years gathered up a lifetime supply. the berkeys are our saviours! (i have said this on so many blogs/chatrooms and forums over the years that berkey really should be paying me!). but i am glad that you found that info useful and are using that set up. also you are dead right about getting in shape, eating good and proper food (hopefully the majority you grow yourself, forage for, or hunt for...and get your practice time in at your home-made range. we alert our nearest neighbours every time we are practicing. it lets them know that we are practicing...but it also lets them know that we are practicing...catch my drift?) xoxox

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  6. I like Crisis Preparedness Handbook by Jack Spigarelli. It is a well balanced book that I think hits all the bases. It is THE one book I give folks when they ask. It either hooks them or the folks have no intention of changing anything in their lives.

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    1. I haven't heard of that one but I will see if I can get a digital copy from Amazon. Sounds like something I should have.

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  7. Tewshooz, I am sure you did but I don't remember the conversation. Can you send the information again? If so can I share it or would you prefer not?

    I'm painfully toiling to get blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar and weight to more acceptable levels having recently changed doctors. But my wife's medications are the result of a thyroid problem and having had a brain tumor removed, and we can't do much about that. Still , it's high time we got more involved in managing what we can.

    I do think that people with psychological disorders and drug dependency would vanish in fairly short order when they couldn't get their medications. But there are a lot more of those folks out there than is generally recognized. They would be a definite factor for awhile.

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    1. I get my thyroid meds overseas, too. No sugar, no grain and watch you weight, blood pressure go down. The cholesterol myth has been debunked. Read the reports on how the sugar lobby was responsible for the cholesterol is bad for you narrative. Kymber knows.

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    2. Ok. As soon as I finish answering comments here in a few minutes I'll go get the message.

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  8. Harry you might want to read this article. Read it all the way through. This is a scenario I had not contemplated, but it really raises my hackles. I am still working on a plan for this, but have not come up with anything better than force on force. I do not like my odds at the moment.
    https://mtntopforge.wordpress.com/2017/05/30/tshtf/

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    1. I'll go take a look in a few minutes. Thanks for sending me the link.

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  9. A very thought provoking post. My main concern is something being put into the water. We are currently working really hard towards a house with a little land. It is so expensive here... With a bore hole would be fantastic. We saw a house with a air source heat pump, run by solar panels. Solar hot water, PV panels and a bore hole. It was pretty good. Then someone put in a crazy bid for it and is going to knock it down and put 5 houses on the small plot that it was. Very sad.

    We are able to buy ibuprofen in the general supermarket, quite cheaply. 16 tablets for 45p. But a lot of people dont know that in the same supermarket there will probably be a pharmacy where you can buy 80 for £1.50. The same with paracetemol. a person on the supermarket checkout is only allowed to sell you 32 in one transaction. Where a pharmacist can sell you more.

    Over here Drs are very hesitant to give you antibiotics. I only managed to get mine for my trip to South East Asia, as I get infected insect bites very easily.

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    1. Sol, that happens here too. In Atlanta, my Uncle used to live in a nice neighborhood. All the houses had big lots, with big trees. But the state put in low income housing right next to the neighborhood, and the crime rate went through the roof. The new residents considered the old residents their own personal resource for robbery and house breaking. As people moved out of the old neighborhood, developers bought up the lots, tore down the beautiful old houses, and built "Stalin era" architecture block apartments for "subsidized housing."

      Ibuprofen is pretty cheap here. I can get 500 tablets for $6.00 at Walmart.

      I don't know what paracetemol is but I am going to look it up.

      Antibiotics are hard to lay hands on here too. I can get a bottle of 50 for about $3.00 if I can get a prescription, but if I have to buy the same pills as "animal medications" they run about $30.00 for the same amount of pills.

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  10. Thanks Harry for a good reminder of things we all need to do and be aware of.

    Medications are a thorny issue in SHTF. Yes, there will be many people who will suffer for lack of proper meds. As you know I live with a son who needs several types. It is difficult to see what happens when he goes without, as the aggression is there for sure. It's the one chink in our armor that we haven't fully figured out yet. I would hate to think that if it comes down to it during a collapse, we might have to resort to how these individuals were dealt with in the old days. Confinement seems pretty cruel to me.

    In any case, it's best to keep doing what you can do, however small. Leave the rest to the man upstairs. --Troy

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    1. Troy, I guess there's no easy answer to some things. I just keep plugging away at the issues I'm nervous about.

      I'm not sure if there would even be any place to confine people or anyone to run such a place in a crisis situation. Even today in Georgia , anyone who doesn't have good health insurance and is retained by a hospital for psychiatric problems is just kept under observation for a couple of days and then put outside the back door.

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    2. I guess I should have clarified, I meant confinement within a particular room, in our own home. Only speaking for ourselves here.--T

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    3. I got you. That would be an issue, sure enough. Within the family I'm sure you could cope with it. Sadly, a lot of people with emotional difficulties have been abandoned by their families and are on their own. Those folks are pretty much out of luck here. Since the big financial crisis of 2007, Georgia hasn't had any state run psychiatric facilities. If you can't pay, you can't play. The McDonalds in one town in the next county had to ask their Sheriff's Department to quit dropping off the mentally ill in the McDonald's parking lot. The cops had no where else to take them, couldn't confine them for mental illness and didn't want them in their jail. So they would pick them up and dump them off at the McDonalds. Why McDonalds? Because the cops would give them a couple of dollars and they would willing get out of the car, so the deputies were shed of them.

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  11. happily living in the boonies of Tx well away from any city or even town we will bug in. Police out here are thin on the ground , when i moved here ( from the UK )the sheriff suggested a .45 hand gun and a 12 guage pump as a minimum , he's a nice guy , One night an old local farmer caught someone stealing a battery from his tractor and shot at him from the bedroom window , no damage and the thief ran , the farmer reported the attempted crime and he turned out to check around and have a talk to him " what ya shoot him with ?" "bird shot " , the sheriff went to his car and got the old man a box of 12 guage 00 buck shot ,"use that if'n he comes back . Here is a good place to be .

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    1. The environment you live in, and the attitude of the people who live there, is all important in my experience. My relationship with the Sheriff's Department has fluctuated over the 30 plus years I've lived here, as Sheriff's came and went.

      Georgia has very clear standards on self defense, we are possessed of excellent "stand your ground" and "castle" laws. However, if you go into a city, you're still apt to find yourself jailed and up on charges if you are involved in an incident with minorities. In the rural areas, common sense prevails. Sounds like yours is a good place to be.

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  12. Hi Harry - just surfed in on the advice of Gorges Grouse. I've got a lot to chew on.

    Question: for some reason I can't see the pic of the SHTF telephone you recommend. Can you post a link to it?

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    1. Glenn, I'm not sure why that happened, but blogger is a strange program and frequently does things no one can figure out. The picture is of a standard little handset phone. Here's the link to that particular picture.

      http://www.jcpenney.com/p/golden-eagle-5303-trimline-corded-dial-in-handset/ppr5007179480?pTmplType=regular&country=US&currency=USD&selectedSKUId=68332680018&selectedLotId=6833268&fromBag=true&quantity=1&cm_mmc=ShoppingFeed-_-GooglePLA-_-Telephones-_-68332680018&utm_medium=cse&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=telephones&utm_content=68332680018&cid=cse%7Cgoogle%7C004%20-%20home%20furn%20leisure%7Ctelephones_68332680018&gclid=Cj0KEQjw6-PJBRCO_br1qoOB4LABEiQAEkqcVZVrB8eVxFtHr1Kpl6AdzGPUucUIghRkIoUDwf-SNLkaAiF_8P8HAQ&kwid=productads-adid^45810122738-device^c-plaid^282681217406-sku^68332680018-adType^PLA

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  13. There are some OTC possibilities available. For thyroid, check out Thyro-Gold or Nutri-Meds desiccated bovine thyroid supplements. My uncle used the Nutri-Med when he couldn't get his prescription Armor thyroid pills. For diabetes, I went with a strict no-carb diet and some Gymnema sylvestre herbal supplements, my A1C went from 10.4 to 5 in a year. Hawthorn berry dealt with my mother's high blood pressure - she preferred the Nature's Way brand.

    These alternatives usually have to be taken multiple times a day, and won't be as powerful, but are better than nothing. One way to use these supplements is to alternate days with them and days with the prescription medicine, or one OTC day and two prescription med days. This allows you to build up a stash of prescription medicine over time.

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    1. tweel, are you not a bit nervous about mixing herbal remedies and prescription medications? Especially when you have something like diabetes than can kill you? You must have a lot of faith in holistic medicine. I know some really sharp people who do, so don't think for a minute I'm being dismissive of the point of view. I guess I'm a bit of a coward when it comes to medicine. Once I was seeing two different doctors, and they both knew what the other was prescribing but one of them didn't deconflict the prescriptions and it really made me sick. Ever since then I've always been hyper about medicine. I deconflict my own medicines now with a book and English friend sent me.

      My wife actually does have thyroid problems and two of her medicines are for that. Maybe I should stockpile Thryo-Gold. I've never heard of it but then I know almost nothing about herbal medicine.

      I have made notes on your recommendations. We don't have any herbal medicine shops in our county, but there is one in Murphy, North Carolina and I go there to the liquor store (we have no hard liquor except shine in my part of Georgia), and to the scratch and dint grocery store, so I'll check it out.

      Thanks for the information.

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    2. Harry, I'll admit that I ran a lot of blood sugar tests on myself, got a baseline with the Metformin and then did the same with the Gymnema sylvestre eating the same portions and doing the same amount of activity as far as I could. The herbal supplement wasn't as powerful or as long-lasting as the prescription, but diet made more difference than either.

      Armour thyroid prescription pills are dessicated pig thyroid gland, so the difference is minimal - the Thyro-Gold is dessicated cow thyroid gland instead. It's from New Zealand because they didn't import mad cow disease. If your wife is on a combination of Synthroid and Cytomel, that's just artificially making the T4 and T3 that the natural stuff has in the right proportions to start with. I would recommend getting a single bottle and trying it, as some people don't do well on the natural stuff (some Hashimoto's sufferers, IIRC). For my uncle, there was a period when the Armour wasn't available and he didn't do well on Synthroid, so I got him the bovine thyroid pills, which made him feel much better.

      As a general rule, herbal alternatives are not as strong as prescription medicine, need to be taken more often, and take more time to become effective. They can also vary more in strength. The advantages are that they can be 'produced' locally and have fewer side effects. I would not want to go without my Saw Palmetto herbal supplements to calm and shrink my prostate - I was getting up twice a night to pee!

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    3. tweell, I really need to get more attuned to the herbal/holistic medicine. I know lots of people who do use it successfully. Practical Parsimony knows a lot about it, Kymber does, and there are some other people who are big practitioners of that art.

      My problem is that I'll have to pretty much order what I need from Amazon, or drive to Murphy N.C. a lot. I looked at Walmart today, because they have a lot of vitamins and all, but I couldn't really find anything people had been talking about.

      If I tell my wife those products are dissected animal glands, that's the end of that ballgame. I think I'll stay mum about that. The old "what you don't know" idea.

      I think I'll try some of that Saw Palmetto you talked about. I have a similar problem.

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  14. Hey Harry,

    (captaincrunch)


    I read the comments above and Kymber made a good point about meth addicts and dopers in a 'grid down situation' They will become a real problem really fast once the pharmacueticals are looted out. In a grid situation I guess the best way to deal with them is to corral them into a mass detox program locked up in a unused high school football stadium or something.
    In a full on 'end of the world as we know it' situation. I fear a much more sinister approach of 'shoot, shovel and shut up' will be the standing order of the day. When there is no law enforcement, things like 'people coming up missing' Mob Rule, hanging parties and all kinds of anarchy will prevail.

    My thoughts are don't go far from home and don't travel alone in order not to be targeted by highywaymen or bandits. Staying off trails and roads will be a good tactic also. I am fully expecting a great many 'medieval practices' to reemerge.
    Maybe 'Shakespeares' writings along with those of 'Chaucers' Canterbury Tales, may give us a clue on how to live in a neo-dark age (I know Chaucer and Shakespeare were Renaissance but day to day living practices and superstition of that era are in the 'dark ages' compared to how we live in this era)

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    1. In a full on shutdown, it will be "the devil take the hindmost." I watched an old survival movie called "into the forest" last night on Amazon Prime. It pretty well illustrates what happens when all the crutches we are used to in a modern society get knocked away. There's also the very ancient film "A boy and his dog." Remember the Australian film "The Rover." ? When things hit the bottom of the barrel, all the old conventions seem to disappear.

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  15. Harry,

    I was going to send you the name of the overseas outfit I've used for prescription meds for several years now with good results, however, I can't seem to find your personal email address.

    later,
    -Moe

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    Replies
    1. Moe, please do. I use philipnolan1953@gmail.com since the Harry Flashman email account got hacked.

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